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  • Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

    Let me give you the scenario. I have a listing that is a short sale with Nationstar. It was originally a Bank of America short sale. It was a cooperative short sale with Bank of America, which means they have an appraisal before the listing goes active, which helps the parties understand what they would be willing to accept for a sales price. Bank of America’s appraisal was in, and they suggested the Sellers consider a list price of $300K. The home is mid remodel and not financeable in its current state of disrepair. It is a tricky one.

    Notice received that the loan is being transferred to Nationstar. I call Bank of America. She told me to notify Nationstar that they have already completed an appraisal and that Bank of America will provide a copy to Nationstar. I want to make sure the $300K is still going to be within the acceptable terms to Nationstar. Takes two weeks to re-initiate the short sale with Nationstar. They tell me that they cannot request a copy of the appraisal from Bank of America and that they will have their own independent valuation. They require me to submit all updated financials to them. I do. About 3 weeks in, I have an offer of $300K cash. This is after dozens of showings and Buyers requiring their contractors to provide bids to complete the project. I submit the offer for their consideration.

    I receive notification that they require the property to go to Auction.com . This home is in disrepair and located about 40 minutes from town. They say the Seller can deny having the property ran through Auction.com but they would reject the short sale through Equator. Essentially, the Seller had no choice. They start the price at a REDICULOUS $90K. My phone is ringing off the hook. The Buyer in place is frustrated because she has offered a reasonable sales price and they are ignoring her. We hope she will stay in. We have to hold the home open for both a Saturday and a Sunday for hopeful Buyers that believe they can buy this home for under $100K. We show the home and drive the hour countless times, knowing it is all an incredible waste of time and resources.

    Auction.com does not meet the minimum reserve. Now Nationstar asks me to Counter the Buyer at $313K. Buyer rejects. Nationstar asks if I can get her up to $305K, they can probably make that work. I can’t, the Buyer offered her best price at the $300K. She had an appraiser go to the home to see if she should offer more. Appraiser told her no. The deal is dead.

    I put the home back on the market and raise the price to $313K. 2 weeks later, we get an offer for $315K. Offer submitted, it is everything AND more than Nationstar required.

    I get a note through Equator that the Mortgage Insurance Carrier requires the Seller to pay $10000. A cash contribution at close. My Sellers are broke, they are NOW divorced, and located in a different state than our subject short sale house. They spent all of their savings fixing up the home and ran out of money. They both blame this home as the cause for their divorce. We check to see if the Buyer is willing to pay $10000 more. He is absolutely not.

    Seller says they can pay $500 if the sale doesn’t close until the next month. Negotiator tells me that the money has to come from me then. He tells me to get me a new HUD reflecting the $10000 contribution or that the will close the short sale file. He said the $10K Is non negotiable and that Nationstar is not willing to pay it. I point out to him that we have an offer higher than what Nationstar had previously said they would accept, and that they taxes have now been paid in full, which makes another $3K difference. Now that is about $5K combined. Plus Nationstar had previously indicated a willingness to look at a net offer lower than $313K, so why is Nationstar not willing to kick in this money, payable to the Mortgage Insurance Company?

    Thanks Nationstar, you make it so worth it. I am glad I rushed to get you all of the documents you require, I am glad to be punished through the Auction.com program, and I am delighted to be beaten up by your process, and am thrilled to get you an offer higher than you required, and I beside myself that I get to do all of this **** at less than minimum wage. I am so glad you value the agents time it takes to successfully close short sales. I am sure thankful that you appreciate all of the T’s I crossed and the I’s I have dotted so that you didn’t have to ask for corrections.

    Let me be really clear here, I am in real estate to EARN a living. I do not do it for fun, or for enlightenment! I am not a charity, or a non-profit. This transaction may end badly for me though, and well for everyone else.

    Anyone else have an experience like this one, where a bank has required the Agents to forfeit their commission to close a deal? Were you able to keep your commission intact? Have I just gotten a negotiator who gets a bonus if they can squeeze more money out of me? I have closed A LOT of short sales, and I have never paid my commission to a bank to close a sale. What do I do?
    Last edited by Kim Knox; 01-02-2014, 03:39 PM.
    Kim Knox
    Principal Broker, Owner, ABR, GRI, PME, A-REO, REDCpro,
    541-899-7222
    Licensed to conduct Real Estate in the State of Oregon

  • #2
    Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

    Can you increase your commission to offset some of the loss? You could increase by the amount close to the taxes you mentioned (3,000) so it won't really upset the overall net to Nationstar?

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

      Originally posted by Dan Frank View Post
      Can you increase your commission to offset some of the loss? You could increase by the amount close to the taxes you mentioned (3,000) so it won't really upset the overall net to Nationstar?
      I don't know. It is not a government backed loan, so they might not have the same restrictions with commission. I am currently charging 6% commission. Maybe I could charge 7% which will roughly be $3K. Could I get away with charging 8%?

      You are a very clever man [MENTION=3]Dan Frank[/MENTION]

      Does anyone know about charging a higher commission with Nationstar?
      Kim Knox
      Principal Broker, Owner, ABR, GRI, PME, A-REO, REDCpro,
      541-899-7222
      Licensed to conduct Real Estate in the State of Oregon

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

        I have had the misfortune of dealing with something similar to this with mortgage insurance. It makes me think that as listing agents on short sales, we should get offers for the amount required and nothing more. If a Buyer is willing to pay more, we should get a separate addendum indicating their willingness to pay up to $max amount. That way, we can use those funds for payments like this.

        So if your Buyer would have offered just the $313K, then you could have had an addendum a promise to pay $2K more, then you would only be looking for $6300 right now.

        Potentially the Buyer could have actually offerd $305K and had an addendum (like an escalation clause) indicating their ability to pay $315K, then you might be able to get paid for your work.

        Not sure how this would work, but it certainly makes you wonder why we produce more $$ than what is required if it can't be contributed towards the cause. In fact, I see it as getting penalized for bringing more $. Sorry this is happening to you.
        Roberta
        Proud Realtor for 25 years!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

          This totally sucks for you Kim, it just shows that these lenders don't give a rip about anybody but themselves and that they aren't working with anybody during the short sale process. I posted a story about how one of the big banks screwed with people during the modification process to make it nearly impossible to complete a real modification. It doesn't surprise me that another lender is doing the same type of thing with a short sale. Roberta has a very insightful comment, what is the purpose of bringing a higher offer than the bank has already said they would accept, it doesn't help the seller that's for sure. A REO listing just went live next door to my home and the bank is paying 0% to the buyers agent and .6% to the listing agent, tell me if that values our profession or not. These banks are too big to fail and they screw the little guy time and again, sounds like a great deal for them. Oh, and I'd call their bluff, what do you have to lose, you aren't making any money on the deal anyways. This may be one of those deals where you have to stand up for something.
          Last edited by Jesse Gonzalez; 12-30-2013, 06:05 PM.
          Jesse Gonzalez, Broker/REALTORģ
          Archer Realty
          DRE License#01855372
          NMLS MLO#278103
          707-583-3666

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

            Originally posted by Jesse Gonzalez View Post
            This totally sucks for you Kim, it just shows that these lenders don't give a rip about anybody but themselves and that they aren't working with anybody during the short sale process. I posted a story about how one of the big banks screwed with people during the modification process to make it nearly impossible to complete a real modification. It doesn't surprise me that another lender is doing the same type of thing with a short sale. Roberta has a very insightful comment, what is the purpose of bringing a higher offer than the bank has already said they would accept, it doesn't help the seller that's for sure. A REO listing just went live next door to my home and the bank is paying 0% to the buyers agent and .6% to the listing agent, tell me if that values our profession or not. These banks are too big to fail and they screw the little guy time and again, sounds like a great deal for them. Oh, and I'd call their bluff, what do you have to lose, you aren't making any money on the deal anyways. This may be one of those deals where you have to stand up for something.
            [MENTION=2138]Roberta Bishop[/MENTION] I agree, that is pretty smart. I guess how a listing agent would counter offer would be to redraft the entire offer at the lessor amount and include an addendum with an escalation. In this particular case, we had a competing offer, so this Buyer offered a little more than ask to get the deal. I never considered countering at the lessor amount with an escalation, but it is a good idea. I am going to have to mole it over.

            Jesse, we have seen a few listings come through our MLS with a 0% Buyer Agency fee. Those need to be flagged and removed from the MLS. The MLS's entire purpose is to offer work for PAY to buyer agents. the MLS is a trading organization. Trading contracts for PAY to involve cooperating agents. Take away the pay, take away the MLS. Simple.

            I tried calling their bluff, and my bluff got called. =) Even though it seems I have nothing to lose, I hate the idea of losing the opportunity to short sale for my Seller Clients.

            I do wonder though, had the minimum reserve been met through Auction.com would they have waived their requirement for a $10K contribution at closing? Auction.com advertised it as a pre-approved price. Does Auction.com have more pull with the Lenders to avoid Seller Contributions?
            Kim Knox
            Principal Broker, Owner, ABR, GRI, PME, A-REO, REDCpro,
            541-899-7222
            Licensed to conduct Real Estate in the State of Oregon

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

              and Jesse, you are saying that the Listing Agent is being paid less than 1% for the listing that is paying a Buyer Agent 0%? We gave up a lot when the MLS started sharing our MLS listing data to outside sources. We have reduced our own value.
              Kim Knox
              Principal Broker, Owner, ABR, GRI, PME, A-REO, REDCpro,
              541-899-7222
              Licensed to conduct Real Estate in the State of Oregon

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

                The question then becomes, are you obligated to represent your seller in a transaction if you are not getting paid for it?
                Chris Knox, Principal Broker
                Jackson County Oregon Real Estate Sales
                http://www.LandlineRealEstate.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

                  Excuse me but you all are looking at this the very wrong way. You are blaming the sellerís lender for not taking a loose. Itís your sellers fault no one elseís. He/She barrowed money and you are trying to get the person who he borrowed money from to take much less. The sellers is just saying no. Itís not the lenders fault. I also submit to you that your sellers are not as broke as they claim to be. Donít forget they have to submit financials to the lender to even attempt a short sale. The lender found the $10K period. Your seller simple does not want to give it up. Plus if you want your commission go after the person who hired you. You may hate me for this however if your seller really does not have the means to pay you and you still decide to work with them donít complain youíre not getting paid. The bottom line here is your seller barrowed money and now for whatever reason canít or wonít pay it back. You want the very person who lent the money to take less then what they are entitled to and they say they wonít take the amount your client offers but we will take this amount. I am sorry they are not bad guys for that. You yourself in the same situation just might say the same thing.
                  Alan Plager
                  Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices
                  Top Ten for units US 2015
                  Over 6,000 Units Sold
                  Toll Free 1-888-722-2098
                  Office 727- 451-8776
                  Email Alan@LoveTampabay.com
                  Web AlanPlager.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

                    Originally posted by Reodude View Post
                    Excuse me but you all are looking at this the very wrong way. You are blaming the sellerís lender for not taking a loose. Itís your sellers fault no one elseís. He/She barrowed money and you are trying to get the person who he borrowed money from to take much less. The sellers is just saying no. Itís not the lenders fault. I also submit to you that your sellers are not as broke as they claim to be. Donít forget they have to submit financials to the lender to even attempt a short sale. The lender found the $10K period. Your seller simple does not want to give it up. Plus if you want your commission go after the person who hired you. You may hate me for this however if your seller really does not have the means to pay you and you still decide to work with them donít complain youíre not getting paid. The bottom line here is your seller barrowed money and now for whatever reason canít or wonít pay it back. You want the very person who lent the money to take less then what they are entitled to and they say they wonít take the amount your client offers but we will take this amount. I am sorry they are not bad guys for that. You yourself in the same situation just might say the same thing.
                    REODude, I understand that ANY lender is not obligated to accept a short sale, but this short sale was originated as a Cooperative short sale with BofA, meaning that BofA was willing to short sale at a particular price. This was after receiving the complete financial package from the Seller. Further, once Nationstar took on the short sale, they indicated a pre-approved price when they ran through the Auction.com process. Further they countered the previous Buyer at $313K without requiring a financial contribution from the Seller. So I disagree, I don't believe I am looking at this the wrong way. I have continually updated the Seller's financials, and there is no evidence of them having money. How I am viewing this is that my role is to help the Seller's short sale. Yes, I can be mad because I have exerted a considerable amount of time and money to work a short sale that seemed perfectly reasonable.

                    Your right, if I opt to throw in my commission then that is my decision. You can bet I will try everything possible to avoid this, hence this post, asking for suggestions. I will absolutely complain about my commission being on the chopping block! BTW I don't hate you for having a different opinion then I do, that might be why I like you the most, haha.
                    Kim Knox
                    Principal Broker, Owner, ABR, GRI, PME, A-REO, REDCpro,
                    541-899-7222
                    Licensed to conduct Real Estate in the State of Oregon

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

                      I am sorry you are having such a problem with Nationstar but trust me you are not the only one. The big issue is that once Nationstar became one of the servicers for Bank of America, they moved all of the short sales and REO properties over the auction.com. I spoke to several AM's on this and it was simply a matter of simplifying all the tasks and basically make the buyer do everything ie lien searches, research unpaid assessments and make their offers based on their findings which is the same for both REO and short sales. Plus, their research was telling them that they would get better offers via auction.com than from the standard real estate market for two big reasons and I hate to say it but:

                      #1 Buyers (mostly investors) would make higher offers to tie up the property then try to re-negotiate later once they finally researched the property

                      #2 Agents were not submitting all the offers on the properties and they were getting too many deals where the agents had both side of the commission.

                      Now with that said, nobody at any lender is going to confirm these reasons but just from my conversations from AM's from several different companies, these were the reasons moving over to auction.com....takes the human element away. My biggest issue is item #1 since there is no way the lender can force these auctions to close and I have had maybe 10 listings be pulled and handed to auction with only 2 selling in a year....could of sold these properties for more money on open market especially one which they sold for $35,000 less than market with no liens.

                      Now in regards to Nationstar short sale, they are extremely difficult and nobody is more frustrated than their boiler plate responses than me. They cannot make you give up a commission since your contract is with the owner of the property and not the lender. But as you found out, they do not have to approve the sale. We have several files here in the same position where we had an approved sale only to have them move the property to auction.com in hopes of finding a buyer to pay a higher price which in most cases they do not, then they come back to you and hope your buyer is still around or they make a counter offer again. In all of our cases, the buyers did not come up on the price and Nationstar finally agreed. Now, you may want to let the file "stew" for a week or two and see if Nationstar calls you back since they review the files a couple of weeks and get status updates and they will be forced to call you back. Also keep in mind you will have better luck at the end of the month and the end of the quarters since all of these lender have quotas to fill.
                      Edward P. Klem
                      Broker-Associate
                      Certified Distressed Property Expert
                      Short Sale Specialist

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

                        Dang, I am now missing the end of year quota opportunity. Not for lack of trying. The negotiator says there is no negotiating this. They did negotiate the requirement of the Seller signing at $45K promissory note (no interest payable in 10 years), but he said that was a Nationstar requirement that can negotiate. He said the cash contribution is a requirement from the Mortgage Insurance Carrier and it is non negotiable. Do you think Nationstar will bend and pay it if I just sit and wait for awhile?
                        Kim Knox
                        Principal Broker, Owner, ABR, GRI, PME, A-REO, REDCpro,
                        541-899-7222
                        Licensed to conduct Real Estate in the State of Oregon

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

                          What really blows my mind about this is that Nationstar and many lenders will take a promissory note from a buyer who could not even pay the mortgage? And the worst part is that 99% of them will take this promissory note as an un-secured debt which means in 6 months the seller (and if they qualify) can file for bankruptcy and possibly (notice the word possibly) have this even wiped out for the cost of the bankruptcy which would be less than $10k if this is the only debt. As for the cash contribution part, we have seen lenders come back with some crazy numbers only to end up taking anywhere from 50-75% of their first number....it is all a game!
                          Edward P. Klem
                          Broker-Associate
                          Certified Distressed Property Expert
                          Short Sale Specialist

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

                            Originally posted by Kim Knox View Post
                            and Jesse, you are saying that the Listing Agent is being paid less than 1% for the listing that is paying a Buyer Agent 0%? We gave up a lot when the MLS started sharing our MLS listing data to outside sources. We have reduced our own value.
                            Yes, that's what I'm saying.
                            Jesse Gonzalez, Broker/REALTORģ
                            Archer Realty
                            DRE License#01855372
                            NMLS MLO#278103
                            707-583-3666

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Nationstar wants MY Office Commission and they might get it!

                              Interestingly, we have some readers on AgentLinkus that work for Nationstar! A sincere THANK YOU for the help!! My file has been re-assigned to a new negotiator, who might not want my office commission after-all!

                              I will let you know how this works out. Again, thanks to Nationstar for paying attention!
                              Kim Knox
                              Principal Broker, Owner, ABR, GRI, PME, A-REO, REDCpro,
                              541-899-7222
                              Licensed to conduct Real Estate in the State of Oregon

                              Comment

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